Welcome to rxmechanic.com. If you have a perfectly operating system using R12 you do not have to drop what you are doing and convert to R134a. Unfortunately, the R12 refrigerant doesnt always blow cold air. The most common influences which effect the capability of R134a to perform well are the condenser, in some cases the the superheat setting of the expansion valve or the amount of R134a. All leaks in systems using R134a must be repaired within 30 days. Its possible to convert from R12 to R134a without replacing the systems components, so when R134a was brought out, it seems to be a good match to many automotive air conditioning issues. R134a isnt as efficient in cooling as R12. These applications will - due to browser restrictions - send data between your browser and our server. Motor manufacturers in the USA used R134a in air conditioning systems for new cars from 1994. Subtract or 0.25 pounds from this number. It is also used in automotive car conditioning and the plastic industry. Im not a lawyer, but charging a known-leaky system with something flammable sounds like culpable negligence to me. The problem in all of this is the sentence As long as the system is functioning correctly and not leaking. Who in their right mind would take a tight, cold, R12-based system and convert it to less-efficient R134a? Thus you see how R134a conversion was often applied to systems that were not working correctly, if they were working at all. In fact, R12 was used for many years as a propellant in a variety of aerosol products and sprayed directly into the air, and it is closely related to the halon used in fire extinguishers. R12 and R134a are older types of refrigerants that are considered to be dangerous to the environment today. We learned the theory behind refrigeration and air conditioning, which centers on this wonderfully useful bit of physics: When liquid boils and evaporates into a gas, it expands and cools. Diagnosis of the air-conditioning system can be done in the same way as with R134a. The following bullets are verbatim from EPAs website: There is an additional requirement that the cars A/C have charging fittings that are unique to the refrigerant being used, but its the venting part thats of the most interest, as its the area where you can get fined. Its been likened to trying to convert a petrol engine to run on diesel. Then there are three new EPA-approved climate-friendly alternatives. There is R1234yf, which is already being used on new cars but is classified as mildly flammable. At $70 per pound, no one is using it in retrofit applications. Unfortunately, converting existing air conditioners that use R22 to use new refrigerants isnt easy. We suggest dumping the old refrigerant oil in a clean container and inspect the oil for sludge or waxing (old oil that has gelled) and contamination (metal particles). Concentration level: The R134a vapor dilutes the oxygen concentration in the air to a low level, thereby causing harm. Hell, its possible that not all of the original A/C components are even there anymore. The biggest giveaway is the air conditioning connectors. With new R12 no longer being manufactured, the market price soared to $100/pound. Price is reasonable Consistent and accurate R12 uses mineral oil, but R134a wont dissolve in mineral oil. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Your email address will not be published. This product is safe to use in that its not toxic, flammable, or explosive. The effect that R134a has on global warming makes this gas an unattractive product to many technicians. Many commercial enterprises that run large chillers or transport companies running reefer trailers or containers have used R12 as its a highly efficient refrigerant that provides excellent cooling. And it was safeneither poisonous to breathe, nor flammable. Also, R134a cylinders are light-blue in color. Unfortunately, this product still contains chlorine. When this happens, the chlorine in the product contributes significantly to the ozone layers depletion, leading to a lack of protection from harmful radiation. The compressor should then be filled with R134a-specific oil (usually PAG oil) and the system evacuated and recharged. See your PT chart. Converting them is extremely expensive, and in many cases, replacement is the only option available. eBay requires that anyone posting an auction for R12 check that the buyer has that certification, but eBay has no way to enforce it. Though you can purchase 12 or 16 ounce cans of R134a from local retailers it is very difficult to measure out the correct amount into your system. A/C professionals derisively called these death kits because they had a reputation for causing the compressor to seize a few months later. R12 is miscible with mineral oil under any operating condition. Also, they are mostly used in refrigeration and automotive air conditioning systems. In addition to it having a low ODP, science has proven that R22 is also a strong greenhouse gas and has a GWP of 1810, indicating that its 1810 times more powerful than carbon dioxide in contributing to global warming. The best replacement for R134a is R1234yf, while R12 refrigerant replacement was R134a. We mention using ester type refrigerant oil. This allows the refrigerant in the condenser to be void of oil particles. To prevent refrigerant loss you should consider replacing your old hose lines with barrier type hose. The problems that arise are related to the oils used in the system and the fact that they have different charge weights and different boiling points. Remove the old mineral oil from the compressor by turning it upside down, side to side, and turn the front hub on the clutch assembly. Its chemical symbol is CCl2F2. Inhalation of vapor: Inhaling a large amount of R134a vapor can lead to drowsiness, temporary nervous system depression, and lethargy. R12 is highly destructive to the earths ozone layer. The global warming potential measures the amount of heat trapped by any gas compared to the amount of heat trapped by the same amount of carbon dioxide. The problem with these so called drop in replacements is that to properly handle them you may need dedicated equipment to identify the gas and evacuate it for proper disposal. Older fridges and air conditioning units that use this refrigerant will still work efficiently, and converting them to more modern refrigerants will be difficult and unrealistically expensive. Rxmechanic.com is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for website owners to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. You do not have to split up the 5-6 oz of oil and add it to each component, just simply put it all in the compressor as it will move throughout the whole system once the system is operational. As Ive said, R12 is a nasty ozone-destroying chemical and should never be released to the environment under any circumstances, so in addition to being illegal to vent it, you have a moral obligation not to vent it. The global warming potential is a factor that measures the amount of heat trapped by any gas when compared to the amount of heat trapped by the same amount of carbon dioxide. They behave in the same way when used in any form of refrigeration or air conditioning plant. After the system has been tested out it should be checked for leaks. On the other hand, R12 has a global warming potential of 10,910. R134a has a boiling point of -14.9 degrees Fahrenheit, whereas R410 boils at -61.9 degrees. This is a highly desirable property as it means that the boiling point is always below the targeted temperature. The advantage of ester oil is that it works with both R12 as well as R134a, so you can fill the system with it and then use either refrigerant.Sha. You confirmed my decisions in one elegant post (as opposed to the 60-odd hours of blog post readings and YouTube videos). Hopefully Ive properly conveyed that, if the A/C in your precious vintage car is long-dead, the question isnt whether you choose between buying a few NOS cans of R12 and shooting them in (seriously dont do that) or converting to R134a. Merely an emerging auto hacker. The alternator, sometimes called a generator, generates electricity to charge the battery and power all the electric auxiliaries while driving. Difference Between R-134a and R-410A Refrigerants? Refrigerant for domestic & commercial use, Mainly used in the automotive industry but can be used as a refrigerant for domestic and commercial use, Has excellent cooling properties and performs at a similar level to R134A, Has excellent cooling properties and performs at a similar level to R12. Moreso, it had been banned. Both of these gasses are very safe for use in all forms of refrigeration as theyre not flammable, explosive, or toxic. Rob Siegel has been writing the column The Hack Mechanic for BMW CCA Roundel magazine for 30 years. With R134a you do not rely on the site glass. Heres R12 vs. R134a pressure chart. If the oil didnt dissolve into the refrigerant, it would reduce the refrigerants ability to transfer heat. Additionally, R134a was introduced as a replacement for R22 and R12 in high and medium-temperature refrigeration systems like domestic and commercial chillers. . The biggest difference between the two is that R1234yf is mildly flammable and does require special handling. The question instead is: Why is the system dead? Therefore, its most suitable for both commercial and domestic environments. A simple rule of thumb conversion would be to take the amount of R12 refrigerant your system requires, in pounds, and multiply by 0.9 (your answer should be 90% of the R12 value). Hence, the effect of R12 on global warming is up to 10,000 times higher than carbon dioxide. When the ambient air temps get above 80F the gauge readings can run a bit higher on the high side and lower on the low side when using R134a. It is usually sold under the brand name, Freon 12. Do a pre-inspection and then Evacuate (vacuum down) the system, the longer the evacuation the better but there is a point of diminishing return, 2-3 hours is generally very good. This gas is then cooled via environmental means, and the gas slowly loses heat and reverts to a liquid state. Another difference is that yf Evaporators must meet SAE Spec J2842, which was not an issue in R-134a systems. Statisicaly your friend was lucky. Very few DIY-ers have recovery equipment (I dont), so you need to take the car to a shop that does, and fewer and fewer shops keep and maintain R12-recovery equipment. pdrayton on Sat July 14, 2007 2:12 PM Year: 1983 Make: Mercedes Model: 240D Engine Size: 2.4 Refrigerant Type: R12 Ambient Temp: 90 Pressure Low: 35 Pressure High: ? 2021 Complete Guide, Find more info about me and HVAC Training 101, Screw, roll, rotary, reciprocating, and centrifugal compressors for refrigeration and air conditioning, Used in automotive air conditioning since 1994, and has been retrofitted to many older models as a replacement to R12, Used to remove humidity from compressed air in gas dusters. If your car was produced after 1994, it likely has R134a used as the refrigerant. These cheap kits usually have a few cans of R134a (either 12 ounce or 16 ounce), maybe an extra can of refrigerant oil, a few generic R134a charge port adapters and maybe some o-rings. Its a safe product for use in a variety of domestic and commercial environments. R12 is well known as a refrigerant used in many applications as its non-toxic, non-explosive, and non-flammable. Buy online for free next day delivery or same day pickup at a store near you. The higher the ambient temperature the higher the high side pressure. By using a black light the dye will glow in areas where oil leaks are visible. However, you need calibrated gauges for R410A. With that said, Ill agree that the flammability issue may not be as black-and-white as it appears. The new player in the market is HFO-1234yf (R-1234yf), which is considered ozone-friendly and has a GWP of less than 1. In contrast, the most likely reason youd consider recharging with an alternative refrigerant is because the refrigerant leaked out of your car and youre trying to avoid doing a full-on A/C rejuvenation which includes finding the leak and properly changing refrigerants. When ever possible you should ask the technician to note the same information on your repair bill and keep a copy in your glove box for future reference. 5 foreign cars that were copied from American style. Also, look for a blue sticker that gives the date of conversion. R12s GWP is 10,910. R134a is a newer type of refrigerant that has some significant advantages. Not so fast. R12 was used mainly in domestic and commercial refrigeration, while R134a was used mainly by the automotive industry. Refrigerant Can Leak Easier For starters, R12 systems and R134a systems are designed differently to accommodate the gaseous state of each. R134a is an HFC or tetrafluoroethane, and its chemical formula is CH2FCF3. A comparison between R12 vs. R134a temperature will show that R12 has a higher temperature than R134a. 0,008 0,01 0,012 0,014 0,016 0,018 0,02-40 -35 -30 -25 -20 -15 -10 Evaporation Temperature Mass Flow Rate R600a R134a R290 R1270 R32 . Whether R134a performs as well as R12 in any given a/c system depends upon system components and the . In todays world, the combination of its ozone-depleting ability and its contribution to global warming makes this product a major issue for many countries. R12 is otherwise called dichlorodifluoromethane is a colorless gas (chlorofluorocarbon halomethane (CPC) that is used as an aerosol spray propellant and a refrigerant, and is soluble in organic solvents. Technicians must capture and recycle R134a safely, and the gas must be disposed of by following the EPA guidelines. Lets take you through the advantages, disadvantages, and differences of these two refrigerants a detailed comparison including R12 vs R134a performance. Because of R1234yfs mild flammability, BMW and Mercedes are now adopting R744. This means that when exposed to the environment, it exists as a gas. The flammables have hydrocarbons. R-12 and R-134a use different size fittings in order to avoid mixing the two types of refrigerant. R12 is recognized as a very stable compound, and it wont break down under even the most stringent conditions, but if it comes in contact with flames or electrical heating elements, it breaks down into toxic components. And with R134a costing only two bucks a can, converting to the new inexpensive refrigerant seemed the thing to do. Both of these compounds have similar cooling properties. Legally. Here are the basics for converting a system that does not have a charge of R12, its empty. When you add fluorescent tracer dye to with the refrigerant oil it helps to track down leaks that push oil out of the system. We consider the the various types alternative refrigerants that are illegal or not approved to be in two sectors: non-flammables and flammables. If your cars system has a sufficient condenser design and air flow to expel the greater amount of heat extracted by R134a, then by all means you should convert over when the time comes. We, the Rxmechanic team, have presented a well-detailed comparison of R134a vs. R12. From this number, subtract 1/4, or 0.25 pounds. These guidelines are strictly enforced, and contravention of them can lead to severe penalties being imposed. SureBilt R-134a High and Low Side Service Port Repair Kit $ 5. This is a remarkable read about the history of R12 to R134a, and the reasons and (few) exceptions to not convert to R134a. With R12 you use to check to see if the site glass was full, if it had bubbles it meant you had a low charge. If you are replacing other system components, such as condensers, driers or hoses, you may need to add more a/c refrigerant oil to the system. In addition, there is a $10,000 rat-out fee your neighbor can collect if youre venting refrigerant and he tattles on you. If it splashes inside the eye, it could lead to a serious eye problem. Oil doesnt stay in the compressor, however, it dissolves in the liquid refrigerant and gets carried through the system as a fine particulate mist when the refrigerant goes through its liquid/gaseous transition. Yes R12 systems did cool better than R134a, but there are differences and it is not wise to go back wards. A final difference is that most (though not all) R-1234yf cars will have a Suction Line Heat Exchanger. However, its been shown that R134a is as destructive to the environment, and newer refrigerants have been created to overcome this problem. Skin contact: If the R134a (liquid) comes in contact with your skin, it could cause a burn. These properties make it popular for domestic and commercial refrigeration. R12 and R134a are not the only game in town. It became known as R12 or Freon. I think that, with hindsight, many people would agree that, even given that R12 is an ozone-destroying agent, fines of this level made many hard-working A/C technicians hostile to the government, and thus were counterproductive. In contrast, older CFC refrigerants had an ODP of 1. There are significant differences between R12, R134a, and R513A, which must be considered when handling, processing, applying, or retrofitting with these refrigerants. The most significant disadvantage of this product is the damage that it can do to the environment if its vented irresponsibly. The problem is that some inexpensive available refrigerantsammonia and propane, for exampleare poisonous and/or flammable. To ensure the right charge, you must fill the new system with between 75 and 85% of the factory-set capacity for optimal cooling. You do not want to exceed the systems high side recommendations. The cost of recharging the air conditioner is between $150 to $500. As this chemical has both chlorine and fluorine in its make-up, it belongs to the group of chemicals known as CFCs or chlorofluorocarbons. Its called Polyol Ester Oil or POE oil. In large application systems, the vapor density of this refrigerant is usually high. For example, if your system originally had 36 ounces of R12 then you multiply that by .80 and you have 29 ounce of R134a. R12s boiling point is -21.6F or -29.8C. R134a wont damage the earths ozone layer. 1. As long as the compressor was working well, it could be drained, filled with R134a-compatible oil, and reused. However, it must be noted that itll disintegrate into toxic compounds when exposed to flame. What's the difference between these and how do. Safety: R134a is safe to use as its non-flammable and cant explode. Reattach the hose lines using new R134a compatible o-rings, lightly lubricate with compressor oil. Yes, theres a certain irony in the fact that weve gone full-circle from the invasive youll need to replace almost everything including the compressor and hoses in order to properly convert R12 to R134a to you dont need to replace all that much; just flush it, new oil, new drier and o-rings, and back to youll need to replace almost everything including the compressor, hoses, and the condenser. But this change has occurred both because the cars are that much older than they were when the R12 to R134a change occurred in the mid-1990s, and there is now a better understanding of the need to take advantage of updated compressors and condensers in order to get the A/C systems to blow adequately cold with R134a. Bottom line, R134a simply doesn't cool as well as R12. The common problem when converting from R12 to R134a is lack of knowledge or equipment. However, theyre still used in older plants, systems, and the automotive industry. Even though their common major function is to cool the system, they have many differences. Over time, a credible middle ground emerged. Compatible with multiple applications: The major reason for the introduction of R134a was to replace R12, so it functions perfectly in the same range of applications like rotary, screw, and centrifugal compressors for air conditioning and refrigeration. This product was developed to overcome the old CFC refrigerants problems as it has an ozone depletion potential (ODP) of 0.055. Also, the fittings and hoses should be perfectly compatible with R410A. Thus, R-600a is more efficient than R-134a. Ive always liked them. R12s ODP is 1 (the highest rating). I wouldnt say Im a BMW enthusiast. The compressors used by refrigeration plants to compress gas require oil to help lubricate its moving parts. 29. R134a is not an ozone-destroying agent, but it is a greenhouse gas, and is illegal to vent as well. Get it as soon as Thursday, Apr 20. This is measured using a factor known as ODP (ozone depletion potential). Besides, R134a refrigerant was manufactured after R12 was banned to help reduce the harshness of the old chemical (R12) on the ozone layer. R12 is CFC: Even though R12 is one of the most commonly used refrigerants, it is CFC. The service ports in both systems are quick-connect, but they are taller in the yf systems to avoid cross-contamination. Any old black o-rings should be replaced with R134a-compliant green o-rings. You can look up the law yourself at www.epa.gov/mvac, but basically it boils down to three things. Sold by e7tools and ships from Amazon Fulfillment. I have seen a large difference in pressures you are looking for due to temperature demand of unit. The value of carbon dioxide is 1. Also worth noting is that the R-600a requires a shorter time to reach -21C (60 minutes) compared to the R-134a (135 minutes) [1]. BTW Im sorta tempted to buy one of your BMW 2002 cars. In addition, R134a refrigerants are not only used in auto air conditioners, they can be used in freezers, aerosol cans, and refrigerators. The issue is that you need to reach the point where the system is functional and leak-free. If he is not in the garage fixing challenging mechanical problems, he is writing automotive repair guides, buyers guides, and car and tools comparisons. All refrigeration plants use compressors to compress the gas returning from collecting heat, raise its temperature further, and compress it to facilitate cooling. Each has its own cult following and requires its own EPA-approved charging fittings. The first vehicle that used the R1234yf refrigerant was the 2013 Cadillac XTS. As these refrigerants are slowly phased out, there are still many questions that people have about them. Theyre older generation refrigerants that have some serious environmental factors against them. Just leave it alone for now. Theres a lot of misinformation surrounding R12. The R12a cans use the same taps as the R134a cans and the supplied hose has R134a compatible fittings on both ends, so R12a can be used to recharge R134a systems too. The molecule size of R134a is smaller than that of R12, so there was concern that R134a could leak out through the hoses and flare fittings that R12 systems used. Refrigerant: Must be EPA-approved and cannot be intentionally released (vented) into the environment. This chemical is tetrafluoroethane, and its chemical formula is CH2FCF3. Hope this helps Reply 10-10-2020, 01:12 PM #4 Chris Stritchko R134a has a GWP of 1430. Piston Slap: Booting a Torino in a snap without snaps? Being a CFC, this product depletes the earths ozone layer, contributing to global warming. Both of these refrigerants wont be used in new air conditioning or refrigeration plants, but theyll continue to be used in existing plants and the automotive industry. As for R134a and R1234yf, theres no room for conversion. R134a refrigerant is lighter than R12. An R134a-specific expansion valve was preferred but not strictly necessary. And, unfortunately a small high side pressure gauge on a short hose. 135, three new EPA-approved climate-friendly alternatives., Installing a lift pump in a Duramax diesel. A gentleman in Canada was very interested until he learned about the R12. https://www.wiseautotools.com/mountain-quick-connect-r12-ac-gauge-conversion-to-134a/ A/C gauge conversion kits from R12 to R134A. This drop can affect energy consumption since the plant will operate for a longer period or a larger plant will have to be installed. R134a is a greenhouse gas, while R1234yf has a lower global warming . All in all, I'm very happy with the results and see no reason why they won't last. Why racetracks are giving hybrids and EVs the cold shoulder, Rearview cameras have been around longer than you think, At $720,000, this Ferrari 550 Barchetta Pininfarina is looking for its top, For roadster lovers, Mazdas Miata is (still) the answer, National Council of Corvette Clubs lifts competition ban on E-Ray, How fast is the Corvette E-Ray? R134a was touted as the replacement for R12 until it too was deemed environmentally undesirable. Its been labeled as a greenhouse gas, and its use is no longer supported. Its often said that buying or selling R12 is illegal. Dont do it. I am currently retired and no longer do much with HVAC, however, I feel like I have a lot of knowledge in the subject and I wanted to create a website where I could talk about what I've learned and help upcoming HVAC techs. Start the car again and add R12A to bring the low side pressure to about 32 psi. But the problem with R12 is twofold. A vacuum pump, a refrigerant recover system, quality service gauge set with both low and high side gagues, and much more besides the lessons to learn what to do and what not to do. For R12, its mineral oil. The symbol implies that R12 is a composite of carbon, chlorine, and fluorine. You may have heard of a friend that did the job himself with borrowed equipment and 12 or 16 ounce cans of refrigerant. Only licensed air conditioning companies and technicians may purchase this refrigerant. Pressure Temperature Table If it is adjustable there will be an adjustment screw between the two terminals. Low refrigerating effect per pound: In comparison to other refrigerants, the refrigerating effect of R12 per pound is low. This means that its classified as a greenhouse gas and will add to the current problems of heat not escaping the earths atmosphere. That doesnt mean to say that theyre no longer used. One cant discount its drawbacks, but theres a great deal of knowledge and information available on safely using the product. Many vehicles that contain this type of refrigerant will continue using it. R134a belongs to the family of HFCs or hydrofluorocarbons.